[ATM] SPAM AGAIN!

[Chris Rowland]

I did a search on Google for the email address I use on this group and 
the ONLY place it is referred from is the ATM list archives.

I also use this address for a number of Yahoo groups and they do not 
leak. The ATM list does leak, it deliberately publishes addresses and, 
because the list requires that the email address is in the header for a 
message to be accepted and the archive publishes the headers there isn't 
anything users can do about this.

So the ATM list and archives seem to be responsible for most of the spam 
that I, and everyone else on the list gets through this address.

We are encouraged to keep messages brief because some people pay for 
messages on a byte for byte basis, then provide an address for spammers 
to use to send as much as they like - this seems pretty inconsistent.

The rules even say that spamming is not tolerated. It seems there's no 
problem will allowing others to do the spamming though.

Chris


Eric S. Johansson wrote:
> Chris Rowland wrote:
>> Hi Bob,
>>  > Now that I am calmed down  after a nice cigar, I still need to
>>  > remind everyone that is still doing so that HTML is not loved on
>>  > this list.
>>  > I am getting SPAM again from posts to this list.  The file
>>  > attachment is a Google search that I jsut did today and, fo
>>  > course, it has some posts that I've done to this list that have
>>  > posted my email address.
>>
>> It seems to be fundamental to the way the list - and the archives - 
>> work. Our email address are posted in the archives, in clear, for 
>> anyone to harvest.
>> It doesn't seem to be anything that individual people can do anything 
>> about, or an issue of posting in HTML.  It is when the messages are 
>> converted to HTML  - including the headers - for the archives that the 
>> problem arises.
> 
> very good assessment of the problem.  Those of us who use mailman to 
> manage our lists have long been plagued by the archived presentation 
> software being rather "lose" about displaying peoples e-mail addresses.  
> The latest versions of mailman are pretty good about hiding addresses 
> but addresses leak because of people's e-mail clients and other such 
> external influences.
> 
> I have had people demand occasionally that I edit archives etc. and each 
> time I give them an option.  I tell them they can pay $1000 into the 
> pool which I would use to build a better archived presentation tool.  
> This tool would preserve the original data but hide addresses in a way 
> that allows people to contact list members.  Or, I can just ignore 
> them.  usually they choose the second option.
>>
>> It even says so in the ATM info page:
>> "Note on privacy: the ATM list is not anonymous, and the e-mail 
>> address and name you subscribe with will be shown on your posts and in 
>> the list archives. If you wish to keep an e-mail address private, do 
>> not post from it."
>>
>> I'm a bit surprised, this wouldn't be tolerated in Yahoo.
> 
> that's not strictly true.  Yahoo archives also leak addresses.  Yahoo is 
> also an evil company and the really want to do business with evil 
> companies when you have options?
> 
> So I suggest that the members of this list have options.  They can use 
> client-side filters to block most spam and some e-mail, they can fund 
> either through volunteer time for with money the development of a proper 
> archive presentations tool for mailman, they can do nothing and just 
> complain every so often.
> 
> it's important to note that once an address has leaked into the spammer 
> world, it's almost impossible to get it cleaned up.  I have some ideas 
> on how to do this more effectively but that's off topic so contact me 
> off list.
> 
> 
>