[ATM] Fwd: Delmarva MMM (was Re: tile tool)
Guy Brandenburg
gfbrandenburg at yahoo.com
Wed Mar 30 07:29:15 JST 2011
Sent from my iPhone
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Guy Brandenburg <gfbrandenburg at yahoo.com>
> Date: March 29, 2011 6:28:17 PM EDT
> To: Don Surles <don.surles at verizon.net>
> Cc: Jerry <wa4guu at verizon.net>, "atm at atmlist.net" <atm at atmlist.net>
> Subject: Delmarva MMM (was Re: [ATM] tile tool)
>
> One of the reasons I like going to things like the Ddlmarva Mirror Making Marathon (seminar) and Stellafane is so I can steal (borrow) the ideas of folks who have spent a lot of time and energy and thought on the process.
> At DMMMS11 I got to see Dick Parker's Fizeau interferometer and autocollimation double pass parabolic null tester; Dave Groski's Schiefspiegler; Bill Hannigan's considerable expertise on analyzing and quantifying much of the entire process; and Steve Swayze's mastery of the Ross null test. Among other things, and amid great company!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Mar 29, 2011, at 1:58 PM, Don Surles <don.surles at verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> here is a link to my flickr page with pic of MMM#11...enjoy...
>>
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/77683595@N00/sets/72157626153914661/
>>
>> Don...
>>
>>
>> On Mar 29, 2011, at 1:55 PM, Jerry wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Don...
>>>
>>> Are any pictures posted somewhere?
>>>
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: atm-bounces at atmlist.net [mailto:atm-bounces at atmlist.net] On Behalf Of
>>> Don Surles
>>> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 1:46 PM
>>> To: richard1941 at gmail.com
>>> Cc: atm at atmlist.net
>>> Subject: Re: [ATM] tile tool
>>>
>>> At this year's MidAtlantic Mirror Making Weekend #11 we had the time frame
>>> of Friday Noon to Sunday afternoon to fine grind, polish and figure our
>>> mirrors...there is no time allowed for UH-OH's.
>>>
>>> Over the years we have fine-tuned our recipe that resulted in 16 of 19
>>> mirrors being finished Mar 11-13, 2011. The 3 that did not finish were:
>>>
>>> 1) the mirror maker quit...decided mirror making was not what it was cracked
>>> up to be
>>> 2) the mirror maker had to leave early due to an emergency
>>> 3) a 16.5" that we did not expect to finish in the given time frame because
>>> the mirror maker went back to 80 grit.
>>>
>>> The 16 mirrors that were finished were excellent...fully polished, fine
>>> figured, no chips, sleeks, or scratches...we finished 3-6", 5-8", 4-10",
>>> 3-12.5" and 1-14". All were figured to a null on either a Ross-Null or
>>> Double Pass Auto Collimation setup.
>>>
>>> Our experience in previous sessions have been just as good or
>>> better...MMM#'s 9 & 10 everyone finished.
>>>
>>> OH...I almost forgot...MMM is an all-volunteer effort. The talent and time
>>> devoted to this one weekend is truly awesome.
>>>
>>> I suppose what we are discussing here is the "art" of mirror making vs
>>> science. We all know there are many paths to a fine finished and figured
>>> mirror and every mirror maker will instinctively take his own path. That's
>>> what makes our hobby interesting.
>>>
>>> More grinding, more polishing, and a lot more figuring...then put those
>>> mirrors in scopes so that you can really appreciate mirror making.
>>>
>>> Don...
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 29, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Richard wrote:
>>>
>>>> Under no circumstances should deviation be tolerated in a mirror making
>>>> class. Deviant behavior can be contagious, so deviants must be expelled
>>>> immediately. Deviancy constitutes disrespect of AUTHORITY and can not be
>>>> tolerated. Biblical support for this is found in Romans 13.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: atm-bounces at atmlist.net [mailto:atm-bounces at atmlist.net] On
>>>> Behalf Of Mel Bartels
>>>> Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:19 PM
>>>> To: atm at atmlist.net
>>>> Subject: Re: [ATM] tile tool
>>>>
>>>> Glass tools cost money, they can scratch badly, they're slower than
>>>> ring tools followed by plaster and tile tools, they don't do as good
>>>> as job in removing anomalous pits at the end of fine grinding, first
>>>> time mirror makers often accidently let the final aluminum oxide dry
>>>> out freezing the tool and mirror together and they are disastrous on large
>>> thin mirrors.
>>>>
>>>> During our last mirror making class, we churned out a number of
>>>> plaster tools in an evening. I don't know where you got the idea that
>>>> plaster tools swell - it doesn't.
>>>>
>>>> If you have a procedure for your mirror making classes, then by all
>>>> means, don't deviate. I have a procedure which works nicely too, thank
>>> you!
>>>>
>>>> Mel Bartels
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>> maybe it is possible to make a satisfactory tool from these
>>>> materials...but along with the stories about making and using them are
>>>> stories of scratches, sleeks, broken tools, missing tiles...the list goes
>>> on and on.
>>>>
>>>> when we consider the number of hours we put into making a high quality
>>>> newtonian mirror why would we want to save a dollar or two on a tool
>>>> and increase the risk failure of the project?
>>>>
>>>> at our MidAtlantic Mirror Making Weekends we use plate glass tools the
>>>> same size as the mirror. They really aren't as expensive as you might
>>>> have been led to believe especially if you use them to make more than one
>>> mirror.
>>>> maintaining a good smooth bevel on tool and mirror has eliminated
>>>> scratches and sleeks at MMM's.
>>>>
>>>> plate glass is dependable...no tiles to break loose, no rust, no
>>>> concrete to spall, no plaster to swell...it just makes sense to begin
>>>> a project with the least possibilities for failure.
>>>>
>>>> Plate glass is available from Swift Glass and NewPort Glass...maybe
>>> others.
>>>> Oh, I have no affiliation with any glass company.
>>>>
>>>> Don...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 28, 2011, at 10:40 PM, Mike Coslo wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 3/28/2011 5:15 PM, Jerry Hillman wrote:
>>>>>> I know this has been answered but when I tried to find it in the
>>>>>> archives
>>>> I came up with 100's of posts about tile tools. I can't find what I need.
>>>>>> The tile tool that was supplied with my mirror blank was made with
>>>> textured tiles. After two hours of grinding the glaze is coming off
>>>> the tiles in the center but I can still see the texture everywhere
>>>> else. Is this a problem or should I throw it away and make a new
>>>> tool. Or continue as i am until all the roughness is ground off. I am
>>>> worried that I will destroy the curve.
>>>>>> Jerry B.
>>>>> You're going to get a lot of replies about this, but here's one from
>>>>> a guy
>>>> that is totally wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no way that I would use glazed tiles for a tile tool.
>>>>> porcelain
>>>> is the only way I roll.
>>>>>
>>>>> There are some reasons for this - also wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Basic tiles are quite soft. They wear quickly. I can't think of a
>>>>> good
>>>> reason to have the tiles wear down at a fast rate. Ideally The tiles
>>>> should be the same hardness as the glass (there's another possibility
>>>> for the
>>>> tiles)
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. That glaze? It's glass. Excellent stuff to have rolling around on
>>>>> your
>>>> mirror.
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. What exactly is the composition of that glazed tile? Are there any
>>>> inclusions in it? What is the hardness of the inclusions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Even in porcelain, I recommend basic white. It's a higher quality,
>>>> material and you don't have to worry about if the speckles are of a
>>>> different hardness.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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